Macpherson Kelley Principal Lawyer Suzy Cairney works in a typically male-dominated industry, as she specialises in infrastructure, construction and energy law.
Suzy has been a European Counsel for an international port operator in Belgium, a project lawyer for a major mine developer, and corporate counsel for a Queensland Government-owned corporation.
She now plays a lead role in the firm’s ESG industry group.
Suzy has been admitted to practise in Queensland, New South Wales, Scotland, England and Wales.
Having migrated from Scotland, she has a different perspective on gender equity. She took time out to speak with Proctor ahead of tomorrow’s International Women’s Day.
The official United Nations theme for International Women’s Day 2025 is For ALL women and girls: Rights. Equality. Empowerment.
There has been a lot of media coverage on the gender pay gap. Do you see this being addressed?
“I think when you are talking about firms that are taking gender equity seriously, then yes, they are addressing the gender pay gap, but I’m not sure that’s true of the whole profession. I understand the way in which the gender pay gap is calculated and reported allows for obfuscation if a business wants to do that. Partnership law firms do not have to include the salaries of their partners in their reporting, whereas incorporated practices like Macpherson Kelley do, so it’s not an ‘apples for apples’ comparison, and it allows some firms to fly under the radar.
“I know some firms have refused to provide gender equity statistics even to their equity partners. That is disappointing because it’s a missed opportunity for the legal profession. The profession does not have a great reputation, and people are interested in knowing this stuff, and clear and comparable information should be readily available. At the same time, there are firms that are addressing the issue with transparency. I’m proud to say Macpherson Kelley is one of them.”
Is poor behaviour being called out and if not, why not?
“Poor behaviour is being called out more often than it used to be. At the beginning of my career, poor behaviour from some was an accepted reality for many female lawyers, so I have to say things have improved because the worst behaviour is now discouraged. I don’t think it isn’t being called out enough though, and the reality is there are plenty of practical things people can do to improve the situation for everyone.
“Poor behaviour often comes down to unconscious bias or a lack of respect for other people. Lawyers need to arm themselves with the skills to call out poor behaviour when they see it, in a manner that doesn’t escalate the issue. I like to think most people do not intend to cause offence – they are just not aware of the effects of their behaviour. This is why it should be called out calmly and with respect. It’s also where education comes in.
“The conduct you walk past is the conduct you accept. If you see poor behaviour, in my view you should call it out, even if it is not directed at you. That is not always easy to achieve though.
“I would also encourage leaders to look at their relationships with their teams, especially their juniors, and ask themselves if they are the kind of leader that juniors would feel comfortable approaching (if the junior couldn’t call it out the behaviour themselves).
“I’ve been pretty lucky with the people and firms I’ve worked with in this regard. Macpherson Kelley has a flat structure and an informality that helps build trust amongst junior and principal lawyers, fostering a positive working environment. I would hope that if someone has a problem, they would feel comfortable to speak to someone in the firm.”
Coming from Scotland, have you seen differences between the two countries in terms of gender?
“I have seen lots of similarities, but there is a distinct macho undercurrent to Australian culture that I can’t quite explain. When we first came to Australia, the work environment was much like that of Scotland, maybe 20 years earlier.
“Women in Scotland historically had a strong role in the family, and some of that translated to work. The same prejudices exist in both countries though – a woman in business, in either country, arguably has to be as good as the best of the men or she probably will not succeed. I do not think that has changed.”
What changes have you seen? What changes would like to see, and what has been the biggest improvement?
“I am seeing more female role models with more women getting to partnership, general counsel and becoming CEOs – women who truly deserve to be there. Cathy Russo, for example, is our Managing Principal Lawyer in our Brisbane office and she is a great role model for our girls.
“I think more transparency around gender issues is an improvement too, because it brings disparity into the public eye and people are more vocal about it.
“I’m also seeing a broader understanding that it’s not that women are choosing not to be in senior roles, it’s that they are not supported to be in those positions.
“Recent newspaper articles show that men are doing about the same amount of housework they were doing about 20 years ago, around 50 per cent less than women. The unpaid domestic work of women is part of the zeitgeist, and we need a more equal division of household and caring duties to see a meaningful difference in the make-up of higher paying roles.
“I’ve been very lucky to have a supportive partner throughout my career and that has made a difference in my ability to go for leadership positions. In many ways, my husband is the secret of my success. I’d like to see more people get the support that I have had in my life.”
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